Indo-Canadian Interview 25
In: icohc:42; local: Interview_25; uuid: 85e018b9-aef5-44a2-afe3-9df998da0baf;; (1985)
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Il est arrivé au Canada en 1930, à l’âge de 17 ans. Il vivait en Malaisie depuis deux ans et il souhaitait venir rejoindre son cousin. Il a quitté Calcutta sur un navire de charge ; il devait dormir sur le pont, à la belle étoile, et préparer ses repas. Comme il n’a pas pu trouver de travail en raison de la dépression économique qui sévissait, il est allé à l’école pendant un an. Son cousin travaillait dans une scierie et il habitait avec lui dans le dortoir de la scierie. Il a ensuite travaillé dans cette scierie, puis sur une ferme. Il entretenait de bonnes relations avec les Blancs de son entourage. Son cousin habitait au Canada depuis 1911 et il raconte qu’à cette époque, les Indiens travaillaient très fort. Ils ne mangeaient que des pommes de terre parce qu’elles étaient gratuites. Les travailleurs immigrants des fermes dormaient par terre, dans une pièce commune. Les Indiens marchaient 60 miles [d’Abbotsford à Vancouver] le dimanche pour se rendre au Gurdwara. Il raconte que les Indiens devaient se couvrir la tête pour entrer au Gurdwara. Mais suite à des conflits entre deux groupes d’individus au Gurdwara de la 2e Avenue (à Vancouver), les autorités du temple ont décidé de permettre aux fidèles d’entrer dans le Gurdwara même s’ils ne portaient pas de turban. Il fut président de ce Gurdwara pendant deux ans. Certains furent mécontents de cette décision et ils ont établi leur propre Gurdwara. Il explique qu’il existait des divisions parmi les Indo-canadiens en raison de leur appartenance à un groupe particulier, mais ces sentiments n’existent plus aujourd’hui. Il raconte sa version de l’incident Kama Ghatta Maru. Le cousin de il a fait venir près de 400 personnes au Canada. Il a fait partie de l’armée canadienne pendant la guerre, même si les Indiens n’avaient pas le droit de vote à cette époque. Il dit que les soldats caucasiens étaient très respectueux envers lui, notamment les soldats d’origine britannique et écossaise. ; [This transcript was created by optical character recognition (OCR) software and the accuracy depends on the quality of scanned images and complexity of original text.] SIKHS IK CANADA Intervlevrer: Professor, G. B.:Basran Department of Sociology SIKHS IN CANADA Interviewer; Professor Gurcharan Singh Basran Date of the Interview; July 12 Time begin; 3 "to 8 Languages Mostly in Punjabi. G. B.: How old are you? Informant: 73 years. G. B.: ARe you married? Informant: Tes, I am. G. B.: How many children do you have? Informant: I have three children, two girls and one boy. G. B.: Whick part do you come from Punjab? Informant: Prom Nathuwal. G. B. In which year did you come here? Informant: I came in 1930. G. B.: How old were you at that time when you cane here? Informant: I was 1? years. G. B. Were you married before you came here? Informant: No, I was not married. G. B.: Then, when you got married? Informant: I got married here in 19^5 • G. B.: That was Punjabi family? Informant: Yes, that family is from Jandiala, punjab. G. B.: TATere you studying back in India, before you came here? Informant: Yes, I was studying in Kehna School , and was in grade five. Then I have to coine here to make my pass. page 2 I went to Kalashia first. G. B.: How many years did you stay in Kalashia? Informant: I lived two years there, then I came here. (Canada) G. B.: What was your main reason to come here? Informant: Ky main reason was that my cousin was here. So, I came from Malashia after two years. G. B.: How did you get the information about Canada, from your cousin or from someone else too? Informant: Mainly from my cousin, because he was already here, more over two or three persons from our village were here too, so, I got the information from them too. G. B.: When you here from India, what was the condition of common people over there, I am not asking about your family, but about the common people? Informant: The condition was good, they had enough to eat and wear. G. B.: When you came, you got the ship from Calcutta? That ship was Freight, or regular? Informant: There were Freights at that time. G. B.: What was the condition in the height: Informant: The condition was not very good, but according to that time it was good. There were no rooms, just sleep on the top. G. B.: Then, you used to sleep just on the ground? Informant: No, people used to spread somekind of bed or bed sheets. G. B. How about the meal and the other things like that? Informant: People used to cook their own meal. G. B.: Then, when you came from Malashia to here (Canada) , then you got sea ship? And How was the condition of that ship? Informant: Yes, I came in the sea ship, the condition of that ship was much better than the ship of Calcutta. That waSjjCPR.-.-sRiJ, .and there were rooms so many other facilities, it was modern ship. G. B.: When you came here, did they give you the immigration at the same time of your arrival? Informant: Oh, yes, I was legal, ny cousin came to receive me there. They used to check the pass port only. They used to check the pass in the way too. So, they used to check the pass only. G. B. You came in Vancouver first? page 3 Informant: Yes, Vancouver. G. B. When you came here, what kind of work did you do first? Informant: I did not do anything one year, because there was a very bad depression time. Besides, I started to study little bit. Then, we vrent to B. C. The Singh had the Mill over there. My cousin was working in that Kill. So, stayed there one year, then there was Ocean Fall, did work two years there. G. B.: So, you did not work one year, and just studyin? Informant: No, we used to play volly ball or other games. There was no work at that time. It was very hard to get work at that time. I worked for six months later on any how, otherwise it was hard to get work because of depression. People used to work for ten cents per hour at that time. G. B.:Oh, I see. Then, where ty.oji used to live there? Informant: With my cousin. There were bank houses, and that was a Company Town, MftyLumber. There were 300 or il-00 our country-men workers were there in that Mill. Ther was a big Mill, Log Hill belonged to Jullundhur people. G. B.:When you used to stay in bunk house, then you did not have to pay anything? Informant: No, the person, who frasnnew, they did not get any money from him, they did not get anything from him at least one month, But, my cousin used to pay for me. There were Singhs cooks who used to cook for everybody, so you go to the cook house and eat anything you want. G. B.: '.'hen you did the first job, that was in the Kill? Informant: Yes, that was in the Hill. G. B.: What kind of job was that? Informant: It was on the green chain, like here the Lumber piling. I worked six months over there. Then went to Kamloop, there stayed on work for six months. There were our people who had the farm, they were from ITiranjan Singh's village, they used to plant onions etc. There were hardly four families one was I'uslim family who had the farm, that was all. G. B.: When you used to work, you used to get the same wage as the whites? I heard that they used to get less pay compare to the whites? Informant: No, we had the same wage, our people are just putting themselves down without any reason. G. B.:'.'hen you used to work on the farm, you had th°. food pay? Informant: That was just good. G. B.:How about the living? Where you used to live or stay, when you used to work on the farm? page 4 Informant: People used to live with that family, who they used to work for. G. B.: When you used to work with the white people, what kind of relations you had with them? Informant: We had good relations, there were no differences. Chineese and Japneese were working with us too. Our people used to pick up some fight with the whites sometimes, but they were good. G. B.: Chinees were working hard or used to do hard work which was difficult or our people used to do difficult work? Informant: Chineese people are not strong like our people.a^hey could not do difficult, like on the green chain, that work was quite hard. . So, tht kind of work, only our people used to do. G. B.: Was there any problem or anykind of restrictatlon buying a hous? Informant: No, there was no problem like that. G. B.: When we leave our country, we have our aspirations, dreams and so many other desires like that, so, you think those desires are fulfilled? Informant: Oh, yes, whatever purpose I had in my mind, that is fulfilled. I am happy children are well settled. My oldest daughter is teacher in Richmond, the other one is also working at that place. My son has1 a good job. Me is the incharge of all those horses in B. C, regarding races etc. G. B.: You visit India? Informant: *To, I did not visits?., even once since I cane here. I'Sy wife was born and raised here. G. B.: You do not have any brother or sister over there? Informant: ITo, I have my sisters and brother. I!y brother cane here last year. He is living with my nephew .in Abbos Ford, because he has the farm at that place. So, he is living with him. G. B.: Then, people who visit India and. come back with the news, you night know about those things? Informant: Well, there is quite bit development in everything. But, the present trouble is bad. Ther is big misunderstanding among the people. Cur govt. did not do the right thing, that was a big mistake attacking on the Golden Temple. When they used to come to ar^o.rt T^ehru, they could notn*^ arrest him from inside. Indera knew c.-all-abdut^lt, she should not attackd the Gurdawara. I am against it, that was very bad, it is misfortune of the country. TTow the plane crashed, nobody knew what is the cause and what happened. But they jump the gun too quick. G. B.: When did your cousin cone here (Canada)? Informant: The one who called ne here? page 5 G. B.: Yes, that one. Informant: I think, he came in 1911. G. B.:You used to tali to him, what he used to tell about the conditions here1 at that time? Informant: Oh, yes, in those days, those first people faced so many problems. They had to work very hard, it is hard to explain. They used to work on the farm at that time, there were so many farms between Hichmond and Surrey. The flour was quite expensive at that time, so our people used to say to each other, let us boil more potatoes and we can eat them. At that time potatoes were free no cost. So, they used to eat only boiled potatoes . . There were rooms and they used to spread somekind of cloth on the ground and used to sleep together there. G. B.: It means, first they used to work on the farm? Informant: Yes, most people used to work on the farm. They had the farm in those days, then "ills came, people .worked in the Kills later on, they ^aidjathatctRes'e'wpeDpleiare h^rd^wbrked, now you can see there is different kind of work every where. -i •»•> G. B. Tell me other things, your cousin used to talk about; ? "Jhat he used to tell? Informant: They did not have any ]bthe'r::p>rd]ble>fti9--.the white people treated them very good. They were all illeterate, they did not know any english, may one out of hundred knew English. At that time all of them were with their hair and the "beards. They went through with so many difficulties, worked so hare'. Just think, Abbas 7orcl is almost 60 niles from Vancouver, they used to walk to come here to the Gurdavrara, and there were Kills here too. So, they used to carry the bed on their heads or shoulders and walk* They had hard, time like that, sometimes could not find any work, but the white people treated them right, they were good. JTow, people come and go do the propaganda. They saw difficult time, now you come here there are so many facilities, cars are there to travel or go. When we came it was difficult too, no work deprj3cion was very bad. "ow, these nevr white people make trouble sometimes, but I think, our new people created this problem, because they five the problem to the white slrls in Vancouver, so naturally, the white people would give some problem. ITow, we are living here, we c".o not have any problem. They treat us better than the white people. But if you creat some kind of fuss, then they have to do some thing too. 3o, it depends upon you. G. B.: You tell me another thing, when your cousin came and the people at that time, they kept the hair etc.? Informant: Every body had th'e hair anrl the beard. G. B.: After that, when these people shaved their hair, and started to go to the GurfawaraT; without their head covered? page 5 Informant: When I came, all the people used to go with their head covered. Nobody used to go without their head covered. G. B.: Your hair was cut at that time? Informant: No, I had my hair. G. B.: Well, people who were clean shaved, how they used to go there? Informant: They used to cover their head with the towel or wrap the turban, then go to the Gurdawara. Going without turban or without a cover, it started from the big Gurdawara. G. B.: The one is on the Second Avenue? Informant: Yes, which was on the Second Avenue. There were two different parties, they did not get along very good. There was a priest who came from India, he used to pray with the sword out in his hand. The people used to say that he should not rlo this way he should do the prayer without the sword. There used to beaan election and the general meeting, they said take the votes, if the Sangat (people) wants he should do the prayer with the sword, or wants to kick him out, so, that was passed. At that time, there was ITiranjan Singh Giani,'he suggested that if people want that Vtfci a clean shaved person could be on the committee, so everybody raised their hands. G. B.: There were no clean shaved before that? Informant: No, before that, clean shaved were very rare. At that time, when there used to be an election, people used to run outside, so that people would not choose them, because they did. not want to get elected, now, tv. people make noise to come in the front. G. B.:Oh, that was the case? Informant: Yes, it was like that. I was the president of the big Gurdawara, in the past. I held that position for two years. At that time, I did not have the hair, I was clean shaved. G. B.:Then how did it started, tell me the whole story? Informant: Just on that point, that there could be clean shaved persons. After that, nobody used to say anything to anyone, 3rou could cover your head or go without covered. ITobody bothered, and cared for these things then. G. B.: When was it? (when did. it start) Informant: I thing, 30 years ago. G. B.: It means, it happened in 195'4 or 55. Informant: Yes, I think it started at that time. G. B.: So, it started from the Second Avenue Gurdawara? Informant: Yes, it started from there, as I told, there were' parties, people were not getting along very good. page 7 G. B.:Then started in the other Gurdawara? Informant: Yes, there were two groups, people got mad, they build a Gurdawara which is called Akali Singh, they "built it couple of years ago. First, they used to have a Hall on rent from whites, now they built a Gurdawara. So, people who were mad, they went there in that Gurdawara, they were all having their hair and beard. G. B.: In those days? Informant: Yes, they were angry, they were only five or four, they used to have the Hall on rent, then gradually they built the Gurdawara, which is on the free-way. At that time, people did not care, whether someone is clean shaved or not. But the person is good who does the good deeds, and does not tell lie, does not cheat and dishonest etc. If a person has the beard and the hair or keeping all these things, but on the other hand he is doing bad things like cheating, dishonesty telling lies, what is the use of keeping hair and the beard. I know many people who cheat and are dishonest. G. B.:Then, how long this stayed, like going to the Gurdawara without cover? Informant: It stayed almost ten years. Fow, when most people came, there were differences among those people, and they did not get along good. Even, now nobody force to do that. But it is good to show respect to our ?-Toly Book, nothing is wrong in it. It was because of the differences among different kinds of people, who were holding different ideas. You can see back in our country, they do not allow you in the Gurdawara without a cover. It is a respect of Baba. G. B.: 'Then you came here, people had these divisions, that you are from Doabba, 'lalwa or Kajjha, like it was in our country? Informant: Yes, they had that feeling at that time. People who used to play politics they used to copy c4-'~,"r people, when they could not do anything fron their sides, then they used to lead the people and bring theu in their group. After that, people stopped these things. Now, everybody has his relatives here, I would say every family has its own relative here, so, it is not there much. But before, they used to have these feelings. G, 3. Any other thing about those old days, when your cousin came, how did lis come in the ship or anything related to these things/ Informant: You know about liana Ghatta Maru ship, he came in that ship. G. B.: He came in that ship? Informant: Yes, he came in that. They did not allow many people to get off the chip, just few of them were allowed to get off. G. B.: He came first time in that ship, or else second time? because, ITanu Ghatta I!aru, cane in 1?1'U Informant: He came in 1912 firct, in Canada. G. B.: Then he went back? Informant: Yes, he went bac then. page 8 G. B.: Then he came again in that ship? Informant: Yes, he came again. G. B.:He came in that ship again? Informant: No, he was already here, when that Rama Ghatta Maru came second time. He used to tell about that time, that people went through so much. That was a very difficult tine. Our people helped quite bit at that time. They were ready'to do anything to help those people, who were in that ship. They caliodght manover of the Navy, they wanted to sink that ship. Our people put the duties for everyone, and they held the meeting in the Gurdawara. They said, if they would sink our ship, then we will put the fire on the whole Town. So, they brought the gas and fix every person's duty and surrounded the whole Town. They did not shoot the ship down, but white people threw the coal and gave other problems, after that they brought the Navy . G. B.:Any- other thing about that time? Informant: At that tine, people loved, each other very much, they cared their people. They used to help each other quite bit. They used to tell, that they did not have much money, but they used to say, well, this month you send the money back home, and next month we will send, in this way they used to help each other, ffly cousin worked very hard, he called almost Jj-00 people here, it was because of him, Those old people were very considerate. G. B.: So, it seems to you, that now a days, people do not care for each other, and they have no love for the people? Informant: Yes, these new people, I do not know what do they have on their nintl. '.'e do not talk to then, we go to the Gurdawara. They do not talk to us either. G. B.: Which Gurdawara you go to? Informant: We go to every Gurdawara, we are in the center. But I did not go to the Akali Singh Gurdawara. There is another Gurdawara, where ITiranjan Singh lives, it is a new one. I do not like that Sant who is in that Gurdawara. G. B.: That Sant is from Kaleran, called Kaleranwalla? Informant: No, he is using just that name, but he is Indera1s person. He gave money from here. People touch his feet, people sit on the ground and he si to j.n w.36 chair. G. B.: He is here? Informant: No, he went. Indian Government gave him 20 acres land, he "built a Gurdavrara in Delhi, he gives all the information from here to India. So, I do not like that kind.'of Sant. He built one Gurdawara in England. The Gurdavrara he built, it is under his control. He made so many followers, people T-rare so much influenced by hln, "but EOT:, they ^K* changed little bit. G. B.:Now, tell me, when there was "Jorlrl "or Second, or it started, they used to keep our people in the Army? page 9 Informant: They used to send the letters to join the Army-according to the age, but our people did not go, they used to make an excuse that they arc sick or any thing like that. ¥B were only two people from here. I and Garibu. I stayed for two years, an-? went to Halifax. G. B.: Were you in the Air Force? Informant: I was in the Military, which check the planes. G. B.:Then, in those days, we did not have the right for vote? Informant: tfo, wa did not have that right. G. B.: When you were working in the Army, then, they did not allow you should have the right for vote? Informant: No, they gave that right later on. When I was in the Army, we want to Victoria, there was ITiginder singh Gill, from Churah Chak, and, two white men with us. We went to the Parliament, the KDP people they said you keep them in the Army, but do not give them the right of vote. We had our uniforms,on, so they said that. G. B.:What did they say then? Informant: What they would say, nothing. But, later on we got the right of vote. G. B. It means, among our Indian people, there were only two people in the Amy? Informant: Yes, just two, from here there were two person. I heard there Has one Tian from big village, I have not heard about others. G. B.: They asked everyone to join the Army? Informant: According to the age, one used to get the letter. So, when people used to reach there, they used to make nary excuses and say different things. G. B.: People might be thinking, that they are ruling ovsr our country? Informant: No, no, that was not the case. They wero sccrec! to go there, '."hen we cams in this country', everybody should fight for it. G. B.: When you were in the Army, yon used to meet the white people, it was ok, the relations, attitude towards yon etc.? Informant: Oh, yes, it was all right. The white people never called rae without ' *'r. Singh. They were very happy with us. These 3ritish and. the Sootish used to respect the 3inghs. tlis'j were very happy with us.
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Indo-Canadian Interview 25
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Autor/in / Beteiligte Person: | Gurcharn S. Basran, B. Singh Bolaria. (interviewer) |
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Quelle: | icohc:42; local: Interview_25; uuid: 85e018b9-aef5-44a2-afe3-9df998da0baf;; (1985) |
Veröffentlichung: | 1985 |
Medientyp: | Audio |
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