Indo-Canadian Interview 35

Il est arrivé au Canada en 1942, à l’âge de 16 ans. Il est venu rejoindre son père, qui habitait au Canada depuis 1907. Il déclare que les conditions de vie au Canada et aux Indes étaient satisfaisantes à cette époque et que les gens s’entraidaient. Il a quitté Calcutta en bateau pour se rendre à Hong Kong, où il a dû demeurer pendant deux mois en raison de la guerre. Il a voyagé en 3e classe jusqu’à Honolulu, où 200 soldats blessés furent embarqués, pour finalement se rendre à San Francisco. Les passagers ont dû demeurer vêtus pendant toute la traversée, car le navire risquait d’être bombardé à tout moment par les Japonais. Il fut détenu temporairement dans une prison, puis il s’est rendu à Victoria. Il fut installeur de bardeaux et il est devenu copropriétaire d’une scierie. Mais à cette époque, sa femme est devenue malade et elle est rentrée aux Indes. Sa situation financière enviable a déplu aux Indiens, alors elle est revenue au Canada six mois plus tard. Lorsqu’il travaillait, il gagnait le même salaire que les travailleurs blancs et il n’a connu aucun problème. Il n’a jamais habité dans un dortoir et il n’était pas syndiqué parce qu’il était propriétaire d’entreprise. Ses employés étaient syndiqués. Selon il, depuis 1947, les gens des Indes vivent dans le luxe et ils ont oublié que leurs aïeuls ont dû se battre pour défendre leur terre et obtenir l’irrigation. Il croit que les Canadiens ne respectent plus les nouveaux immigrants indiens parce que ces derniers sont belligérants et ils ont acquis de mauvaises habitudes lorsqu’ils vivaient aux Indes. Lorsque son père est venu au Canada en 1906, il a dû travailler très dur physiquement. Les immigrants ne connaissaient pas la langue ni les lois du travail, alors ils acceptaient tous les emplois qu’on leur offrait. Les employeurs blancs les appréciaient parce qu’ils acceptaient de travailler dur et ils étaient très costauds. Ces gens travaillaient surtout dans les scieries et à la construction du chemin de fer. Il partage son opinion sur l’agitation des Sikhs aux Indes, mais il avoue préférer ne pas s’en mêler. ; [This transcript was created by optical character recognition (OCR) software and the accuracy depends on the quality of scanned images and complexity of original text.] SIKHS IN CANADA Interviewer: Professor, G. S. Basran Department of Sociology SIKHS In CANADA Interviewer: Professor, Gurcharan Singh Basran Date for the Interview: July 5th Time begin: 3 p.m. This Interview is being conducted by G. S. Basran, the language is Punjabi as well as in English. G. B.: How old are you now? Informant: 60 G. B.: What is your marital status? Informant: Married. G. B.: How many children do you have? Informant: Four children. G. B.: Which part of India do you come from? Informant: Village Toussay, District Ludhiana, Punjab. G. B.: How old were you when you came here? Informant: I was 16 years old, and came in 19M, landed on New Year Day in 19^2, New West Minister. G. B.: You were married when you came here? Informant: No, I was ntt, I went back to India to get married. G. B.: Did your family come with you after you married? Informant: No, the family came afterwards. G. B.: So, you were all alone here? Informant: No, my father was already here. G. B.: When did he come to Canada? Informant: He came in 1907. G. B.: So, your father called you here? Informant: Yes, he did. page 2 G. B.: Your mother was already here? Informant: No, my mother did not come, because in those days very very few women were here, only men were here at that time. G. B.: You must be quite young before you came here? Informant: les, I was quite young. G. B.: You were going to school before you came here? Informant: Yes, I was in grade 9, but I quit in the middle. G. B.: So, you did not complete grade 9? Informant: No, I couldn't. G. B.: What was your main reason to come to Canada? Informant: My father was already here so he called me here. G. B.: So, you got the information about Canada from your father, as what kind of country it is, and what kind of work you have to do or can get etc.? Informant: I knew quite bit before, because lots of people used to come and go, people from Hong Kong and France etc. G. B.: What were the conditions in India at the time of your departure? Informant: Conditions were good. G. B.: Your condition was good, mainly because your father was already here?-but what were the conditions of common people at that time? Informant: The conditions were good in India at that time toe.- People were honest and trustworthy. Here in Canada too, people were-honest, would help each other they were trustworthy they had love for one another. Now, we have so many people we do not know who is who, and first people you know them, you can trust them the same, they were well respected. These people have more respect than anybody else. People from here would call them Mr. Singh, it was not like that what is going on now. Those people were very nice. G. B.: Did you come by boat? Informant: We travelled in many ways. First, we travelled by boat from Calcutta, that was War time which was very bad, then we had to stay two months in Hong Kong, because there was War going on it was very bad time. We were nine people who were coming to Canada, we could not get the bonds from the Bank but our friends and some war people helped us. Then we took the ship from Hong Kong to Manila, everything was so tight, security was tight, Wat was already started. One of our friends kept us there after one week we took the plane from Manila, it took very few passangers, third day the War was declared, they took us to page 3 they took us to Hong Kong, bought cycles, we took the boat from there, then we took the new rout, even they established that the boat would sink, because of attacks, we asked to stop the boat at Singhapur. From Hong Kong we came to Singhapur, we walked from there, from Hong Kong. Then we came to Honolulu., then they took approximately 200 wounded soldiers., when we were coming closer to San Fransieco, we had to even keep our clothes dressed up all the time ready, if we need a cabin or anything like that. Our shoes and everything had to be ready, because Japnese were sinking the boats. G. B.: What kind of boat was that? Informant: Prince Scholage. G. B.: Prince Schoolage, was it Canadian boat? Informant: Yes, it was big Company's boat. G. B.: What were the conditions on the boat, like living conditions, travelling conditions anything like that? Informant: Very good, but we were travelling in the third class, we couldn't afford first class. G. B.: You did not have any problem? Informant: You have to pay for everything, big apple costs you ten cents really delicious, we were happy. G. B.: So, you landed in San Fransisco? Informant: Yes, we landed there and then they took us to the jail to under cover, detention would be called, Japnese were there, all kinds, lots of people, they treated us like buddy. We were not criminal or anything like that, they arranged two people to keep an eye on us, one day we stayed at Siego, they told us we did our paper work you are free to gp now, and do your white job. G. B.: Did you arrive in Vancouver? Informant: No, Victoria G. B.: Did your father come to receive you? Informant: Yes, he came. G. B.: They used to give immigration visa at that time? Informant: Oh, yes, we were stamped. G. B.: What type of work did you get, when you came here first? Informant: Our people had their own shares like shinglemen, within a week I was drawing shingles. After that I saw a Saw Mill at Mission, I was there for one month, it was bad because bunch could not agree on many things, I wanted to be a manager this or that but the guy who made the deal it was his priority, we gave him the estate, we were given two weeks either you keep the Mill or else we take voer. So, he had partners and they page 4 So, he had parteners and they kept it. G. B.: After that where did you go? Informant: After that I went to Shingleman's job we made money. After that we bought other Stew Mill, we made the deal with other Mill, at that time my wife got too sick, so I was ready to go to India, but I did not manage, I sent her to India with the kids. We had high class Kothi, high class living. They did not like it there, so after six months she came back. G. B.: When you first started doing work at Vancouver, it was quite hard, and your wages were equal to the white workers, what were the conditions and the attitudes of other workers towards you, working hours, union membership satisfaction with job, job security what were you called at the work? Informant: We had same wages as the white workers, same job. I did every kind of job, actually, I was making more money compare to them because I picked up every job, and I was a single man at that time. We did not have any problem with them, as a matter of fact they used to push you to learn something. I never had any problem. G. B.And people who were unmarried, they would live in the bunk house? Informant: Yes they were living in bunk houses, but I never lived in bunk house. May be lived in cabin, one bed room and one kitchen etc. not like now a days. G. B.: Unions were started at that time? Informant: Yes, it was started at that time. G. B.: Were you the member of the Union? Informant: No, I was the owner and the operator. G. B.: People who were working for you they were the members of the union? Informant: Yes, they were. G. B.: Were you actively involved with those people in that community? Informant: There were some illegal people like these days, we used to give them money and some help to the people who worked for us. G. B.: When you migrated in Canada, one must have some dreams about the kids and their education and so on, you think they are fulfilled? Informant: Our dreams are fulfilled more than we expected, oh, sure we are very happy. We respect people they respect us. I never play smart or something,people are friendly, they do not like you if you play smart you know that. G. B.: What do you think of the conditions in India, since 19^7 as page 5 as you compare them now? Informant: Conditions are ok, but when we go back we help the family, we respect the family, we do not interfere that is it. G. B.: What is the condition of common people, according to your opinion, compare to the past time like in 19^7 and now at present? Informant: You cannot tell the difference, because people over there they are in luxury. Even in the villages, they drink, they do not bother for the old times, they are more trouble fightings among villagers boys. Now due to consolidation it helps. People have no concern with the public they do not get mixed up with the fight, regarding land or irrigation etc. but in olden days, they used to fight about irrigation and about the land anything like that. G. B.: You think the economic condition in India especially in Punjab, is improved than before? Informant: The economic condition of Punjab is just the same, they were creating the trouble here in Canada. Now these people are settling, our way in back home we take any law in our hand, this country is different you do not take law in your hand, if you have trouble you get the law people, if I have trouble or somebody is bothering me here right now, I can make a phone call, that is why we got no respect now, nobody respect us. G. B.: Do you think, we lost our respect because of these new people? Informant: They came in this country here, you cannot change their habits, because parents support them, so they have damn habits, you cannot change these habits, it takes a little while to change . People fighting here making lots of trouble, cheating on everything, so after that when they find out lost money and the law is different, they change it. That is what happening in this town, it is not that we got no respect. So, we got no respect, we are living in this small community, people know who is who, but before that we were called Mr. Singh, they had more respect and would help each other. G. B.: What your father used to tell about the condition in here? What were the conditions at the time your father came here(1906-1907)? Informant: They had to work hard, when they came here. They did hire our people before in the industry, may be in rail road etc. but after that what they did, hired our country man, now a days they have lumber carrier, those days for drawing shingles you have to push up and then pile them, it goes into piles, it is little higher, they pulled with horses but our people never waited for the horse ride, in those days any timber fall from the roller or something like that, they would not wait, they lift them up, and they adventmrn— advertised that these are good workers and hire them. G. B.: So, they did experience some problems in the beginning? Informant: No, they did not have, because they figured these people do not understand the language, like by rights you are not suppose to lift page 6 heavy weights, but our people were very strong they did hard work and and husky job they did honest work. G. B.: The people who came at the time your father came, they worked in the CPR or Mills etc.? Informant: Yes, but our people put the share in the small Mills and ran those Mills, but our man he sticks with his friend, smart guy cheated people too, he thinks himself and many things like that happened. G. B.: Our people had the partnership with the white people too? Informant: Bh, yes they had it. We had our partnership with the white people in Shingle Mill, it was bad time, depression time, so what they did, the Mill was sitting th«re, people get togather, they were honest sit togather and say well, we need fund now to run the Mill, they asked individually, I heard these things, I was not here at that time. I got the knowledge about these countries from my relatives some of them were in England, I stayed four years. G. B.: You know the present situation of Punjab, if you want I would ask you certain questionsT Informant: Just listen, you know S. Didar Singh, who is in America. G. B.: From Yuba city? Informant: Yes, he is great, isn't he? G. B.: People say, but I do not know him personally, I have* heard his name. Informant: He is my nephew, we are living our normal life, we do not take any part in the society. We are happy now, we do not bother to take part in Gurdawara or anything like that. G. B.: What do you think of the sikh agitation in Punjab, whatever is happening now in India, like sikh demands, and attack of Golden Temple, it was because of Bhinderanwala, I am sure that impact is here too? Informant: Oh, yes, it starts from here. See, our family runs, if there are too many bodies in the family or individual responsibility, that is how we run our life, they run it better each knows his responsibility and work. I am still working. As my brother runs the family and other things, G. B.: You do not have any local involvement and in these gurdawaras here ? Informant: We have the involvement, we go to the gurdawara and still we stay togather, but we are not involved in any other way, because we have our relatives here, so stick togather, if everybody is boss then it is very hard to run anything. G. B.: The Sikh Agitation which is,going on now. what do you think that the govt., Hindu or Sikh committed some access? page 7 Informant: As I told you, I have to look after my family, if you are involved in these things, you have to be perfect, or otherwise you are a bad doer. This is our habit we do not want stay behind always come to the front and get involved In these poll tide things, so, I am enjoying my family life and I am happy. G. B.: Any other thing particularly, about your father's experience or about yourself, when you came here, anything you want to mention generally? Informant: What to mention, but the thing is that, now a days, our people are very smart, my own interest is investment, we were told never have anything which do not belong to you, never cheat anybody, so we follow these things. So, how we can reform the condition of our country by sitting here. Our people are smarte than us, we even forget the name now.