Indo-Canadian Interview 37
In: icohc:30; local: Interview_37; uuid: 9f10bb32-df30-4674-8dd7-4e6bd46ce673;; (1985)
Audio
Zugriff:
Il est originaire de Manukay, au Punjab et il est arrivé au Canada en 1942, à l’âge de 13 ans. Il est venu rejoindre son père; sa mère a refusé de venir parce qu’elle s’occupait de sa grand-mère. Les conditions de vie aux Indes étaient difficiles à cette époque, mais les gens avaient assez d’argent pour survivre. Il a voyagé sur un navire de charge de Calcutta à Hong Kong et les conditions étaient très mauvaises. Lorsqu’il est arrivé au Canada, il a trouvé un emploi dans une scierie et il gagnait 0,40$ l’heure. Les travailleurs étaient tous des hommes seuls qui partageaient un dortoir; un cuisinier préparait les repas. Chaque groupe ethnique possédait son dortoir et son cuisinier. Il raconte que les asiatiques ne pouvaient pas acheter des propriétés près de la rivière : certains terrains étaient réservés aux Blancs. Certains établissements publics refusaient de les servir [restaurants, coiffeurs] et les Indiens éduqués [doctorat] n’arrivaient pas à trouver des emplois correspondant à leurs qualifications. Il s’est présenté à des élections municipales et il a perdu par seulement 150 votes. Il s’est impliqué dans de nombreux comités civiques tout au long de sa vie. Il partage son opinion sur les revendications des Sikhs et sur l’incident du Golden Temple. Il raconte avoir écrit au ministre de l’aide sociale [Gaglardi], lui demandant de l’informer si des personnes d’origine indienne réclamaient de l’aide sociale. Il a indiqué au ministre qu’il s’engageait à loger et nourrir ces personnes au Gurdwara et à les aider à trouver du travail afin que le gouvernement n’ait pas à leur payer des allocations d’aide sociale. Il dénonce l’attitude des nouveaux immigrants indiens, qu’il juge déplorable et irrespectueuse. Son père est arrivé au Canada en 1908; il est venu avec trois autres personnes de son village et avec son oncle. La discrimination était très présente à cette époque et on a même menacé d’expulser tous les immigrants indiens. Les Indiens gagnaient moins que les travailleurs blancs, mais ils ne se plaignaient pas et ils évitaient de faire des remous parce qu’ils voulaient pouvoir continuer à envoyer de l’argent à leur famille aux Indes. Son père travaillait dans une scierie. Il dit qu’il se sent parfois embarrassé d’être en présence d’officiels canadiens, car les journaux publient pratiquement tous les jours un article décrivant un acte négatif commis par les Sikhs. ; [This transcript was created by optical character recognition (OCR) software and the accuracy depends on the quality of scanned images and complexity of original text.] SIKHS IN CANADA Interviewer: Professor, G. S. Basran Department of Sociology SIKHS IN CANADA Interviewer: Gurcharan Singh Basran, Professor. Date of the Interview: July 14th Time begin: 4:05 Language: It would be conducted both in Punjabi and English. G. B.: What is your age now? Informant: 57 G. B.: Are you married? Informant: Yes, I am. G. B.: How many children do you have now? Informant: Three. G. B.: You come from Manukay, in Punjab? Informant: Yes, that is right, distt. Ludhiana. G. B.: What was your age, when you arrived here? Informant: I was 13. G. B.: Which year was that? Informant: I arrived here January 1st, 1942. G. B.: When you came, you were married? Informant: No, I was not. G. B.: So, you actually came here as a studant? Informant: Yes, as a studant. G. B.: So, they you went to school here? Informant: I went only two years, then after that, started working. G. B.: Oh, I see. And so you got married here? page 2 Informant: Yes, that is right. G. B.: Which grade you were in? Informant: In grade 8. G. B.: Oh, I see. I guess all of us have the various reasons to tome to Canada, in your case your father was already here, but there are some sort of atatiwbtc, reasons for your coming? Informant: Well, I guess basic reason is the opportunity to come for the better life and hard work and opportunity to come to Canada. Moreover, my father was working here since long, so, he needed me to take over and give him a helping hand. My mother would not come, because my grandmother was still alive. She needed someone to look after her, even my father asked her to come » she would not, so she stayed there. G. B.: So, you got most of the information from your father? Informant: Yes, that is right. G. B.: If you look back, when you came I am not asking the economic condition of your family but the general condition of our villages, what was the condition at that time, politicla, social, economic etc. in general? Informant: Well, at that time Congress was coming up strongly, the British rule was still there, and the farther rural area was not disturbed although the Congress fire was burning in each village and so politicle turmoil was there, but I was too young to understand at that time, but I knew there so many lectures and lot of people were banned to, not to leave the village or they can go to the other village for information and as for the Congress Party concerned. G. B.: Economic condition, the standard of living, general condition? Informant: It was not that good, although village people always eat and have enough to eat and have everything else. The conditions are getting better now, but at that time it was not up to that extant, not good. G. B.: When you came, you came by ship? Informant: Well, the ships we came in almost thinking now, like an animals. We were on the Freighters, from Calcutta to Hong Cong. G. B.: Oh, I see. Informant: We were sleeping on the deck, where the lumber hole is there, right on the top are gall (hole) going inside. Just portable beds, do your own cooking, there were about 250 people were on that ship, besides the Freighter, the passangers. G. B.: The conditions were bad, it means. Informant: Oh, yes, animals were on the same ship cows etc. and others. G. B.: Is that right, and you mostly cook your own food? page 3 Informant: Yes, we cook our own food on portable stoves, cold. G. B.: So, you had no problem getting into Canada, because your father was already here? Informant: Yes, right. G. B.: We are particularly interested in your jobs experience, when you came here what kind of job did you do? Informant: Well at that time, when I first started to work, I worked in a Saw Mill, putting stencils on a lumber and at that time I always kept a little piece of paper ever since, which shows what kind of wages we were used to get, we were satisfied with that, which comes to about *4®> an hour, so that is the kind you know, I show you the slip, I still carry with me ever since 19^2, that was my wages. G. B.: I see, the depression was sort of over, wages were better. Informant: Yes, that is right from 10 cents an hour to *K) cents an hour. G. B.: The job, which you were doing it was manual type? Informant: Yes, manual. G. B.: I gather, most of the people at that time were single? Informant: Yes, well, they were living in a cook house, they were may be 25 families were here, at that time. G. B.: And you would hire somebody to do the cooking? Informant: Well, they had a cook in each bunk house, where all the bachelors live, single people, or even they were married but the families were in India. So, they would hire one East Indian Cook who was old, who cannot 4ork, so he would become a cook. Then, he cook for the whole people may be 25 or 30 people. G. B.: So, if there were Chinese, japnese or Whites, each group had their own cook? Informant: Yes, they had their own bunk houses, we had Chinese, they were not too far from us, and the white people were there also, the three camps were there. G. B.: We are also particularly, interested in your personal experience of that time, like if you go out, or buy house somewhere, what was your general climax, you mentioned about one person, who was Phd. but he could not get a job, because East Indians would not get govt. jobs? Informant: Right, but those days, the law was, you could not buy property British property, that is Vancouver, all we could not get any^ater Eu»d property. G. B.: So, you could not buy in the West Vancouver or Water Plants? page 4 Informant: Yes, water plants or Shansisy, so, these were sort of restricted areas, that were known Oriental, not only Indian, Chinese could not buy house in that areas. So that time as for the discrimination is con- •**-cerned, there were, Ireraembered, it happened to me, as a boy I had a turban, I went to Bapry, I wanted to buy a ticket,and I was refused, because I had a turban. But although I had my hair cut, I used to put a turban just to satisfy my father. I went home and took my turban off, and came back, and I put the dollar in front of the lady, said, give me the ticket, she looked at me how come this man is all of sudden changed, but then I was in. So, turban was discrimination. -. G. B.: Oh, I see. And our people could buy land at that time? Informant: Yes, people could buy land, there was no restriction buying land. G. B.: So, the restriction was actually, only in reference to the govt. property? Informant: Yes, govt. property, lots of places they were restricted for buying lands, like they would not sell the property like Shanisy. Lots of places were restricted they would not sell it. G. B.: What about other places, sort of restaurants or hotels etc.? Informant: Restaurants were restricted, in some places they would not let you in. S. Inder Singh from Chuharchuk, he fought couple of times, he was refused to serve, he took the Union leader in order to demand service there, he was our leader at that time. He was refused to serve, then, he demanded, the Union leader was pretty strong at that time. G. B.: I see, so, the Union leaders in general were supporters. Informant: Yes, supporters of the Indian Community. Especially, the CCIf in those days, now New Democratic, they were supporting us. G. B.: Lot of people sort of voted for this too? 5. S. Yes, they did, around that time. But now people have their own choices. G. B.: So far, as our involvement/politic^ or community involvement later on as you can say people were involved at the local level or provincial level, or federal level, we did not have the right of vote? Informant: No, we did not have the right to vote, until then we could not vote, fought for the right of vote first, and then we were all scattered all over British Colombia and therefore, that even though somebody, stood for any politicise or in any other office, they were lenient to get into that, and they were mostly lot of working people at that time, and may be they were lack of English or educated and they did not have enough support to get into this. But later on, the year I stood for the election twice, in Vancouver City Council as a part vote Commission. And now, many other has stood for a1ia~set the panel code and they were elected members of the city council. They were not as successful as they could be, you know our people are not thinking it seriously, or may be lazy, they do not take politics as serious as they do in India. In India people may be poor, are not educated but they are very much involved in politics. The votin«r time comes, even if there are aged weary and they carry them up page 5 to there. And if they do that we will have couple of MP's and two three MLA's and many Aldermen in each community right cross British Colombia. They are not interested in, they are lack of support. I don't know why they do that. G. B.: When you stood for the City Council, that was a city council. Informant: This was a Par$CVote Commission, allowing with the Aldermen, they had three Departments, School Board, PariiBoard and the City Council. G. B.: How did you do in that? Informant: I was more successful, I was short about 150 votes to get elected. G. B.: Is that right? But most of your support came from our.f^V/7 Informant: From the White Community, I was member of Nun Part Association, but they hold the majority in the City Council and Maprs for many many years. So, at that time, I have had a very good chance, but the second time, I wanted to stand, I thought I had shoe in, but they knew me by Singh, all my supporters also, at that time another bus driver put his name in the ring, as a part vote commissioner also, so his name came before mine, mine name under Sidhu Sfc&gh, his came before mine, so, they voted him most of them by mistake. G. B.: He was Singh too? Informant: Singh too. So, that is where my votes were undecided, but I was almost declared by those people that you be in sure for this time. So, then he too almost 11000 votes and nobody even knew the guy. He was a bus driver, he just threw his hat in there, he took most of my votes by mistake on that basis. G. B.: He was from Vancouver? Informant: Well, Singh name, he was from Trinidad, that is what happened, otherwise, I would have been successful at that time. G. B.: Some of the other things you have been involved into? Informant: Well, I was involved in every position that you can think of including I was a member of the Cetenniel Committee, Canadian side, you can say, member of the Lion's Club and member of the Voter Trade in Vancouver. G. B.: Also the President of Khalsa Diwan Society, Informant: Yes, Khalsa Diwan Society in New West Minister, and also Presidant of the Khalsa Diwan Socie-EyTh Vancouver, and I was a Chairman of the East Indian Canadian Citizenship Well Fare Association, stands for the immigration for the all East Indian in British Colombia. I was Presidant for many years, I made many passages to Ottawa on behalf of the Community. page 6 And then, we were invited to the United Nation by the Ghakarvarti, when Nehru came. So, we were invited to the White House as well at the same time, Dr. Pandia and myself were there. Then, I was part of the number of the Delegations to India, Trade Delegation for the British Colombia Govt.,to govt. G. B.: What year was that? Informant: 1968. So, getting involved now, I was involved in the Canadian Council, Christian and Jews, I am the Executive Director at the present time, the Founder Member of the Immigration Service Society in Vancouver. So, getting involved and took as I mentioned as for the election is concerned I stood twice, I wanted to pay my respect and enjoyment I have received from the part and my children are enjoying, I thought, I give part of my life for service to the community back, but that is what happened other fellow came in picture, some of the votes splitted, you see. G. B.: I see. What do you think of the condition in Canada since 19*4-7, in general, I am sure you heard the story from your dad, of the earlier periods of the Sikhs, and you came in 19^2, you look right now, let me put the question other way, all of us have the certain experience, what our children would be and what we were at the certain stage .what is your sort of general aspiration, you think your dreams have'^Tulfilled and the aspirations have been met? Informant: My dreams ire absolutely fulfilled. But during the started working in 19^4-. But I went back to India to see my mother, I got married in 19^7 and I went back to India in 19^8» and I have a older son six months old at that time. My older brother never had a child, so I wanted to show my mother her grandson, so I went back and stayed there about three years. I thought, may be I was going to stay there, but after a while I decided I must go back, I was tired, I thought I would make better life here than I could over there. So, I came back in 1952, I have been working, taking business to begin with, and then finally, in 1957 I joined the Sun Life. Sun Life, I spent 25 years, and 25 years, one of the finest 25 years of part of my life. G. B.: You are still working there. Informant: I am still associated with, I am on disability at the present time, I had a heart attack seven years ago, then I had an open setgery last year. So, during that time which I felt I could die on the table but then I thought I will do something, and then that is the ITTi it is on the Guru Gobind Singh's name the ITI of Guru Gobind Singh, and Government ITT Manukay. So, that is the help for Canada and United States. G. B.: I see. What do you think of the condition in India, in general? Informant: Well, as I go back almost for the last 12 or 1^ years, I go every year. As I see there as a progress every year. Although I have visited the other part of the world too, but I felt Punjab, page 7 India as a whole much better than lot of other countries. So, I was quite pleased, although they could have done more, but I was pleased to see Punjab has progressed more than any province, because I travelled in U.P. and I travelled ten days last year in Madhay Pardesh where there was same as I left in 1942 same condition the roads and others, the housing conditions, so compare with that Punjab was the top. G. B.: What do you think of the situation in the reference to the Sikh agitation and all those things which happend, Sikh demands some of the role of Sikhs,storming of the Golden Temple, and sort of the present situation? Informant: Well, I did not take any active part or even thinking as for the agitations in India, and I don't take any part, I have a friend in both sides. I have a friend in Congress govt., I have a very dear friend, so, I talk to them and visit them and don* t take any active part in both sides. So, I feel they both are in the wrong. So, I felt the whole creation is the election stunt, and to divide the Sikhs, and then at the same time whatever have happend I did not put any emphasis what is going on at the time lot of people were killing here and there, and killing I have seen the people suffering now killed in Delhi, and as a matter of fact, my wife was in a number of committees in Jagroan, we collected 100,000 rupees to support these widows and children in our last trip, when we were there. So, I know how much suffering they have gone through. This bad, that is dirty name you can say, you know when you don't care for the poor innocent people dying both sides. I did not like tha^people, when they were dragging in the bus, and killing them. And I did not like the way things were happening, and they were killing in India or anyother place, it is really very sad. As far the Khalistan is concerned, I talked to some other people and talked to the Akali Party they don't want, and news Media did so many times, they, there is nothing to do. They are not demanding Khalistan, more less outside is more demand than inside, whether they are pressed by the govt. or may be they don't want to do by themselves, it is up to them. And I never, if I want Khalistan, if I have any desire, I would go to India, and fight for it, but I don't have it. Therefore, I don't take any active part in either side here. G. B.: What is the implication of Sikh agitation here? Informant: You see, what I see from outside, our community was on the top ten years back. They were most respected although the forefathers came to this country they may be uneducated, but they worked really hard, they blend with the people, they get along with outside and they had love for each other for their own Punjabi people are people from India, whenever, the East Indian going by, who is going, "apna ganda". He is ours, so that time the feelings were much more stronger and united and they were well respected, everybody was looking up to them^ people, like people are looking to the Jewish Kn^ai, we were the second in land after Jewish and everybody had house everybody had a beautiful car, everybody was working very hard, they were well respected, they were well fixed in schools and had the education and they have demanded from the govt. for page 8 their rights. They are in every Department, in every profession, they are in everywhere, they are respected, but for the last ten years, we are going down the hill and I am sorry to say this, I am ashamed at the present time where our community stands. I wish there are more people would get together and try to analyze where we are missing the boat, why we are going through this. Our children are going to do the suffering, you know I am going through now. But they are the one who is going to suffer in the futur, they are the one who are going to suffer. Well, 20 years ago I even tried how long we are going to continue without our culture and children are going here, we are taking our children to India to get married there, it is alright if a boy is going to India and get married, the girl always adjusts herself here. But when we are taking the i girl from here to get married with Indian boy, it is always a prob-f lem 93& problem, divorce and all that. So, we thought we could * get young people together, mix them together, and so many enter-tainement for them and they thought we are going too fast and Sabus has different ideas altogether, so we gave up on that. We used to rent hall rent Orftisftra and get the kids together and they thought no, this is not a good idea, to get the kids together, although they were going behind their back, because we can tell in Down Town where the kids were working. Oh, they were mixing outside. Boys mixing with the girls outside and girls were mixing with the Sojeae outside and getting married and it is awful. So, we are loosing, the most valuable property we have, we may have new homes, new cars, material things, but we are loosing the most dei±iziJfc=»nd dear to our heart, which we live for, what our community is lacKg&itrat the present time. If we do not do anything in the near futur, we might forget it, because they cannot understand Punjabi, and they are going to the Church (Gurdawara) and they are always fighting even if the Granthi is reading the Bible, nobody understands, including myself I cannot understand they gust continue reading the Bible, unless they translated into Punjabi, but God help our children they just take the wastage of time to go to the Church, you don't see young people going in Canada, going to the Church, our Gurdawara, hardly any, you can force them tell you control them and take them, but one set out is finished, only people who are just coming recently, from India they are going % there now. They will soon stop, when they will know that they cannot learn anything other than fighting and argument always election problem always trying to the court, always the charity money going to the Lawyers fo Vancouver. G. B.: Why people just wouldn't sort it out and have the Informant: I guess our people are born leaders. You see they wanted to be, be person. I don't know what they get out of that. Being a Presidant of Gurdawara for one year or two, what position can I create out of that. Unless, I have some other means that I want to cheat, I want to take somethig away and I will get a free meal that is only thing, that is available there. But, if they wanted to dedicated their life part of their life for service, you are taking time off from your children, from your family, you are taking time off from your work going out to serve the community it is a wonderful feeling, but if you are going there just for name sake, we have many *K) or 50 associations in Vancouver just on a piece of paper, you tell me one association is page 9 doing any job in B. C. or Vancouver, but they just name, most of them have presidant within them, and they always1 sena the letter to the Governor General so he will be invited to the party, just names, hardly, had the meetings over the last few years, but they call it association just the name sake. But, if you are doing something like our forefathers they were heading to Ottawa everytime there was a problem. Now, they have the problem in Canadian immigration in New Delhi, they are delaying so long, they are treating you like anything, they close the gate, you stand away outside, even if you are citizen or anybody, they don't let you get in. So, so much discrimination you know, so much blockage. Publication takes so long to get them proove, why they get to proove, we went to Ottawa, there were only medicle in Delhi, so, Dr. Gill, and Dr. Pandia, and few other members of our communijr went to Ottawa, why did they have to, poor families to go to Delhi, they never seen the city, they get all nervous, too expensive for them, so that is the time we stood in Ottawa tell, they were proven that they will be in Jullunder and Ludhiana and the medical will be set up over there. So, you have to go out and fight, and explain to them nicely, we have to go entertain people, tell the problem to them, they would listen to you and they are very glad to help you. They are very proud , the politician need you, and why not use them for your own benefit, using me that is why they are for, they are going to help you if you go and ask for it. But, you are writing letter, there are so many letters go in, nobody knows about it, go there personally, you have to do it personally, no personal effact in this community. Sure I can write so many letters send in briefs poor looks, how many advertisement come to your house, how many times you act upon, unless somebody comes like you, that is what you want, you get the result. You send the form fill it up, please send it , it will be in the garbaje after few days. So, this is our community lacking, lacks in leadership, what the leader is going to do when there are no followers. Today, everybody is leader you go to any Gurdawara, more leaders than the followers. Ni ce people in our community, wonderful supporters, but they are very few. So, these new comers they do not know what the old timers did anything like that, it is a lack of communication. I don't know 83$ of the people come to the Gurdawara now, but I know everyone of them, so you see these people came here in the last ten years. So, people have lost all the contact without our obligations some people retired some moved from one city to the other, so situation is sort of mixed up the turmoil at the present time community. Look badly by all the white people, shame to go and see the Minister. G. B.: Is that right? Informant: Yes, and where we used to say, well look we have the pro-gress|l/community, I used to write, when I was the Chairman of the Well Fare Association, right to the Well Fare Minister, Mr. Glardy, he will have the record in his file. I used to say, Mr. Glardy, if you have any East Indian on Well Fare role, please let me know, we will feed him in the Temple, we will find a job for him, we don't want any East Indian^go to the Well Fare, no There., are thousands who page 10 are on well fare now. You only give me one name and I phone him in Vicotoria, the guy didappears, you are no longer on the well fare, as we have announced your name in the Temple, why are you on well fare. G. B.: When was this? Informant: This is, I would say 15 years back. So, that guy took off, and he is gone back to work, he thought nobody would know, because I had the contact with the Minister to give information. G. B.: Now, you think there are many? Informant: Oh, yes, quite few of them. They are becoming canadianized, lot of Canadians are lazy are on well fare, this is the one point I do not like about Canada, they are going to make this Canada just like England, welT fare state, where the capable people, healthy and paid well fare sitting at home making them lazy, now they are talking about fire fighters, why cannot they teach these guys on for well fare, to fire fighting for every years they are going to use them for two months, train them, they are paying them by the thousands, by the millions and they put poor students and other people grab them from the road and go force them for fire fighting, they are loosing their life, do not know what to do. Our community is going to the same set up easy way, may be becoming Canadian they would not listen to you, those days we hia used to worry about our community, if I do something wrong, what my forefather and the old timer are going to say to me. I should not bring bad name to my father, but now that is not the case at all. This is the community, present time is a turmoil, young people are loosing daily and which nobody care about, sure they go out and listen to them but children are not there, they are not interested in that, they don't understand what the hell they are talking about. $o, they are may be behind back sombody's car rolling on somewhere out when the parents are not there, to guide them. This is what, it is two .^T^ W*8 now, old timer is different, altogether. So, they never ' * going to get together, it is becoming wider and wider. So, our people are getting very much hurt, cannot do anything about it, it is not one individual's problem, but, it is a community problem, on a large scale, somebody has to have this bull by the horn, say look, now that is enough, what we are doing for our children, sure you can go out and fight go to the court and Gurdawara's presidant but what is about the children, what is about our old timers, there is no home for them, they are going to different rest house, I see them, they don't eat their food they don't need their language, they are suffering also, two valuable people, children and the old timers, and we are not doing anything about it, just other things, may be Khalistan, may be Gurdawara side, may be something else, may be collecting money to send to India. When I was a presidant, we wrote in London News paper that no Ugrahi wala should come to collect the money here, because we are building our own Gurdawara, and a community center, no beggar page 11 should come here, we call them beggar, we are to look after our home first before we give any money or donation outside, we have not got a community center, if there is a funeral, thousands of are there on the street, no place to sit, and sometimes Granthi, takes three quairber of the time, lecturing, over these people standing on the cement floor, and they get sicks. And they are all over the place, a little place where they have the funeral service, and p§eple all over the side walk, all over the grass, all over the cemetry, put a shed there, straight shed, so people can sit or stand under it, nothing is there. They are putting not a single effort, these things are very serious bur nobody cares. Therefore so many fractions are coming out, some say I am Indira's man, other say I am Badal's man, So you don't say nothing, mind your own business, and go to India so some charity work there or do social service. What you cannot do anything here might as well do over there. But I am happy, God has given me everything, every opportunity, I have got happy family, children are healthy, they are working, no problem raising them, and I lost one of my sons in car accident, there was a stop sign, but she did not stop. So that is sort of tragedy in my life, so these tragedy do come in your life, and you have to accept them, I have so much feeling for the community but what can you do. Bu, still you may have to say something, these are Badal's men, that is Indira's man, but we are nobody. I know Yakhar, very beautiful person, told him Badal is my dear friend and he is like brother to me. I stayed at his place, and stay whenever I go when he came I look after him. So, I am proud every time I see them I don't care whether he is Hindu, Sikh or Muslim. We even entertain Pakistani Commissioner, 40 years ago, there was no Muslim here to take care of him, So our High Commissionar, Indian, gave my name, told him, you go to Vancouver, see SMhu, so he phoned me, his name was Mr. Birk Pakistani High Commiossionar, Mr. Birk was Sun Light Presidant, he spoke and said I am Mr. Birk, I said yes I read about you last night in the paper. So, we were like brothers. So, I was with them for few days. I took to all the Muslims, wherever he wanted to visit, even up to Hope to Boston Bar, I drove him, so, he can meet all his people from Pakistan. So,l3» to me, I never hang on to any political set up even my villagers were saying that he has the trick to win a politics that is why he is building the lil, and may be I could be a MLA or so, the offices are all opend for me where ever I go, they respect me. So, why I want to be a MLA for what for. Mrs Indira Gandhi invited me with my wife and my daughter, after the opening this ITI. Then she wrote me for thmcing what I did. So, I mean I do not hold any, because I am only doing social service, so why I should take any part in politics. I support the govt. or whoever helps the poor people, I don't care whether they are black, Akali or anybody else, Congress, Jansang, so who cares. So that is the way I feel the situation over there, but I am more concerned here at present and futur it is real dark, our people might solve get together, set up a committee just for the future committee, or other many associations. page 12 I mean as for as I am concerned they are not doing a damn thing, for our old timers here and our childrens future, going money out from this country, God knows whether they are getting anything there, I have not seen anybody taking or receiving. I like to see people who receive, the amount of money they have collected, I don't know where it is going. But, I don't care, I dont pay, but I pay with my own hand. Now, when there is a Jore Mela, (Guru Purb etc. or any other function) you serve the food in the Gurdawara, people needed like people came as a refugee now. Like what happened in New Delhi, buy clothes for the needy and send money, it gives you pleasure. G. B.: Sardar Sahib, what time of the year your father came here? I mean which year he arrived in Canada? Informant: In 1908. G. B.: What was his name? Informant: Kahala Singh. G. B.: How did he come to know about Canada? Informant: They came three four persons from my village, my uncle, they came through Hong Kong, and they went to States, then they came to Canda, those days they did not required for the passports, they just came by boat, so many people came in that boat. G. B.: He was in the Army? Informant: No, he was not in the Army, he went to Russia at that time and keep hearing little further and further and they settled here. G. B.: What sort of work they did here in those days? Informant: Well they went through tough time those days. The discrimination was really tough under the British Rule. At one stage they were going to be thrown out of British Colombia to Hindifecag> they sent one of our people representative to go and see that place. G. B.: Which year was that? Informant: Kama Ghatta Maru incident was in 1913 and it was after that. G. B.: Oh, I see, after that. Informant: And they sent this man to find out and he came back, they really tried to bribe him, don't go there, he said don^t ghethere long drive. to India he went. . G. B.: Oh, I see. Informant: So, then this time he stayed, even the working condition, they were getting 10 cents less than the white man for the same the conditions at that time. Although, they page 13 were mot mixing and minding their own business and they were not the members of club or going in anywhere, they just mind their own business. So, that way they are not coming in the news paper, drufak driving, that this the rape charge, murdur, but those days they did not have these. So, they just knew that they have to support their families in India, they looked after themselves and they send money back home. G. B.: What did he do when he came here? Informant: He worked in the Saw Mill, Timber Land Saw Mill. G. B.: Oh, he worked in the same Saw Mill as you? Informant: Yes, that is right. G. B.: So, he worked there? Informant: Yes, many many years. G. B.: There is another question, which I want 60 ask you, if you look back, the old timers were very religous, and they were all keeping their hair and turbans etc., they believe in religion, but at one stage people even started going to the Gurdawara without their head covered, how did it happen, they believed sort of in a real sense, then the stage came in Canada, people would go to Gurdawara without their head covered, how that happened? Informant: Well, like my father would not shave <*e he was Sikh like Guru he was sewadar here, but as far the hair cut, young born Canadian start coming with their paretts, they disliked them in their school, so nobody puts the turban on, few had they took off too, because rest of them had not all. So, my father would not let me cut my hair, but I was living at that time in Vancouver after I moved from Timber Land then got a better job there and I cut my hair and put turban on, and so it would not hurt him, if he sees me with my hair cut. Seeing the Whites, mixing up with then going with them he would not believe in that, they would do wrong, they would get into trouble all that. They always send money to Amritsar to the Sharomani Committee, because the religion center is there, but those were the types, they were very loyal to each other. Thene was love among the Sikhs. And the families have altogether, but these things don't exist anymore, it is not the same. G. B.: So, you say most of the people believed you must cover your head? Informant: Yes, most of them did. G. B.: Anything else you want to say about your father's experience or Sikhs in Canada? Informant: It was most respected community. I came to States. I attended page 14 Almost of the conventions of Sun Light, and I always put a turban on identify that I am from Punjab, here now you are throwing the turban away and not to be identified, extremist this and that, and people looking at you, people condemning you, and even a small person, the other day the Inspector came to see me he is Health Inspector, so, he was saying about how to spray the chemicle in the field, and all that tell your community that you should tell this teach them, they will be more dying this will be sending food to spray on and all that, it is not very good, so they are themselves condemning you. G. B.: So, according to you, it is really deteriorating? Informant: It is deteriorating, and I am sometimes worried when I see the officials, Ministers and so on, I cannot face them, because I was so proud of my community, and where we are today. There is not a single day when you don't see something in the paper, bad, bad, never seen anything good. I always used to ask the Executive look, we are spending lot of money on .our Banks, why cannot we buy one page a month a news paper, tell the people how good we are, what we are doing, why we are giving all bad days who creating all this nonsense. We should buy the news paper, full page, pay for it, explain to them, spending millions, thousands dollars, why cannot we spend on this way, so that lot of people realize, we are only few people, who are business holding we are very smart people, they are professors in the university, doctors, lawyers, scientists dehtust^m MMdy-jMjism akwais ^acln Va4-, Canadians are against us, govt. is against us, they don't like India progressing so rapidly, there are lots of reasons, we are getting involved along with it. I have no idea that why we are going through this, why we are going through jealousy, why he is on the top among ourselves, work hard, copy them, if you want to be successful find the way. Get the good things out of everything, there are lot of good things in India, get the good ones. So, Sahib, that is why I quit working, I am semi-retired, I have gone over the mountains, extreme, I have lived in Shanisy where they were not allowing to live buying house. So, these kids may be here they are by their own, they are all grown. I am just doing social, that is what I told my wife that is what I want for it. Whatever time I have left, I would do social service. The old society was good, this society is like wasps, if you just touch, they would sting you
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Indo-Canadian Interview 37
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Autor/in / Beteiligte Person: | Gurcharn S. Basran, B. Singh Bolaria. (interviewer) |
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Quelle: | icohc:30; local: Interview_37; uuid: 9f10bb32-df30-4674-8dd7-4e6bd46ce673;; (1985) |
Veröffentlichung: | 1985 |
Medientyp: | Audio |
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