Indo-Canadian Interview 52
In: icohc:48; local: Interview_52; uuid: 47877f64-f56b-4347-8e67-913605aa24d7;; (1985)
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Elle est arrivée au Canada à l’âge de 19 ans. Son beau-père a immigré en 1914 et son mari est venu le rejoindre dix ans plus tard, en 1924. Il est rentré aux Indes en 1937, il s’est marié, puis il est revenu au Canada avec elle. Les conditions de vie au Canada n’étaient pas très bonnes à cette époque. Ils ont voyagé sur un navire de charge de Calcutta à Hong Kong, où les passagers devaient subir un examen médical. Elle souffrait d’une infection aux yeux, alors ils ont dû attendre trois semaines à Hong Kong. Ils ont ensuite voyagé sur un navire britannique jusqu’à Vancouver. Il leur a fallu deux mois pour se rendre de Calcutta à Vancouver et elle était très malade. Son mari a d’abord travaillé pou le CFCP. Il a ensuite acheté des terres et des scieries, qu’il a dû vendre lorsqu’il est devenu malade. Elle raconte que les Blancs n’aimaient pas les Indiens à l’époque et qu’on leur refusait l’accès à certains services [coiffure]. Les Blancs les ont empêchés de bâtir le Gurdwara parce qu’ils craignaient que les Indiens utilisent ces assemblées pour se rebeller de leurs conditions difficiles. Les premiers immigrants étaient illégaux, alors ils ne pouvaient pas s’acheter une maison. Elle et son mari étaient malheureux lorsqu’ils sont arrivés au Canada parce que la vie était plus agréable pour eux aux Indes. Au Canada, ils devaient travailler très fort pour peu d’argent. Lorsqu’ils ont acheté leur ferme, les Blancs refusaient de travailler pour eux alors ils ont embauché des travailleurs d’origine chinoise et japonaise. Les Blancs ont par contre accepté de travailler dans leur scierie. Elle est retournée aux Indes en 1962. Selon elle, les Indiens s’entraidaient davantage à l’époque où elle est arrivée au Canada. Elle avoue que les membres de la communauté indo-canadienne ne savent pas vraiment ce qui se passe présentement aux Indes et quelles sont les revendications des citoyens parce qu’ils n’habitent plus dans ce pays. Elle dit que les enfants des immigrants indiens agissent comme des Blancs et que la plupart comprennent le Punjabi, mais ils sont incapables de le parler. Elle préfère se lier d’amitié aux immigrants indiens de longue date, car elle avoue avoir peu en commun avec les nouveaux immigrants. Ils ont donné un terrain pour bâtir le Gurdwara et ils ont bâti des maisons sur leur terre agricole, qu’ils louaient par la suite. ; [This transcript was created by optical character recognition (OCR) software and the accuracy depends on the quality of scanned images and complexity of original text.] SIKHS IN CANADA Interviewer: Profesor, G. S. Basran Department of Sociology SIKHS IN CANADA Interviewer: Professor, Gurcharan Singh Basran Date of the Interview: July 5th Time begins: Around 5 o'clock Language: Interview will be conducted in Punjabi as well in English. Name: G. B.: How old were you, when you came here? Informant: I was 19 years. G. B.: How old are you now? Informant: I am 67 now. G. B.: When you came, you were married at that time? Informant: No, he went back from here, and I got married, then we came. G. B.: How many children do you ahve now? Informant: I have five children, three boys and two girls. G. B.: Which part of Punjab do you come from? Informant: Distt Hoshiarpur. But my parents village is Bilaspur. G. B.: Are you from Bilaspur? Informant: We are Basrans too. G. B.: Oh, I see, Informant: Which village you are from? G. B.: My village is Badduwal, close to Moga. Informant: Here are more Gills, I have not heard Basrans G. B.: When you came here in Canada, you got the main information from your husband or from any where else? Informant: No, no, I had no idea about it. Actually, I came to know here. G. B.: Which year your husband came here? Informant: First of all, our father came here in 1914 (My father-in-law) page 2 My father-in-law came first to Plama then to America. He came in Canada in 1914. My husband came after 10 years later. G. B.: Oh, it means, your husband came in 1924. Informant: Yes, then he went back in 1937 and came back here in 1938. G. B.: When you came from India, what were the conditions of the people over there? Economic condition, political and others? Informant: As you know already the conditions in the villages. In Canada the conditions were not good either at that time, when we came. It developed after the Second World War, and the conditions were improved here. When we came here in 1938 the war was started at that time. We had the Mills and the farms here we used to grow lots of vegetables. G. B.: Did you come by boat for the first time? Informant: Yes, we came by boat, there were no plans at that time. First of all we went to Calcutta, and got the boat from there. Now a days the people ahve their medicle examination in India then thake the plane and reach here on the second day, now it is very easy. So, at that time there was no medicle. Just got into the boat from Calcutta. When they used to reach in Hong Kong, then there used to be the medicle in Hong Kong. G. B.: I see! But what they used to do with the people, who could not get through the medicle check up? Informant: The used to keep them there or used to send them back. We had to stay in Hong Kong because there was some defect in my eyes. So, they kept us there. We had to stay almost three weeks in Hon Kong. They must be doin that to get some money. Then we, Empress Canada it sank at the time of war. From Calcutta, Freights were running at that time. In the Freight, you have to cook and make your own meal. From Calcutta up to Hong Kong, that was Freight. G. B.: So, you used to make your own mea, and how about the grocery to cook the food or something like that? Informant: Grocery, they used to buy, if they needed anything from the place where the boat used to stop regarding loads etc. Beofre, they board in the boat from Calcutta they used to buy enough stuff for cooking wich could last tow or three days. Afther that, they used to buy form the place where the boat used to stop to take off the freight. The other boat was very good (form Hong Kong). It was just like a city, everything and the facilities were there. There was a doctor, private room swimming pool good arrangement for the meal like breakfast, dinner, and supper etc. There was a private room and you could order the things or ask whatever you needed just sitting there in that room. The service was very good in that boat. They used to give a bed tea at five o' clock, then at seven there used to be a breakfast, again at ten there was tea, at 12 dinner and so on. It was a very good boat. G. B.: That boat was British? page 3 Informant: Yes, I think it was British. Then came to Vancouver, then there suppose to be the medicle again. Some were sent back, I became very weak and was not feeling good at all. The doctor was very nice, he looked at me then let me go without the medicle check up. Then the immigration people check up the papers then they let you go. They used to see the pass port nothing else. I become so weak, it took us two months to reach here. G. B.: Two months from India up to here? Informant: Yes, three weeks we had to stay at Hon Kong because of the medicle. And 20 days back in Calcutta, then the boat used to stop somethinges two or four days from the purpose of freight. The boat stopped. We still remember that time, now, they have medicle in India, at that time, it was very hard. People reach on the second day, it is very easy now. G. B.: I am goin to ask you a question about the working experience of your husband. You told me that your father-in-law came here first, so what kind of work did he do first? Informant: First of all he worked in CPR. Then , there was all this land which was not under cultivation at that time. There was an England Company, any- could have the land on rent and could grow anthing he wanted. Our father-in-law used to get the land on rent, and the rent was quite cheap. After that, he started to buy the land, G. B.: First, he was working in CPR? Informant: Yes, but he worked for a short period of time. G. B.: The, started having the land on rent, then he bought the land? Informant: Yes, he did that, then he got the Mills and ran them. Then my hus- got sick, so he could not work then he sold them. Our sons got their education and are on the jobs. One is in Vancouver at the air port, he is an engineer. G. B.: He used to tell you, what kind of realtions did he has with the workers? Were there only our country men at the work or there were whites too? Informant: There were white people too. But, they did not like our people first at that time. Even when we came, they did not respect our people. Like, they did not want or like to cut Indian people's hair and did not want to polish the shoes, as sometimes in the stores people are there who polish the shoes. They were saying that they are slaves, as long as India did not get its Independence it was like that. Now, the time is different, even now, the wite people are no better compare to us. Some of them have no standard, they are living by hand to mouth. Their children are not under control, parents do not look after them at the certain age, so how they can have the standard. Now, there is not much discrimation but at that time, it was quite bit. G. B.: When you came first, was there discrimination at that time? Informant: There was nothing like that in this Town, but in Vancouver it was page 4 quite bit. When people used to come from Vancouver, they used to tell about many things. G. B.: It means when your husband came first here, and was working, then operators on those stages did not like them Informant: No, no, here, in those days white people got our few people in thier hands trying to by very nice to them they were trying to give them somekind of favour so that they could kick our people from this country. You must have heard about Kama Ghatta Maru, they did not let them get off, they were thinking that this coutry would become colored. Our first people did not come to their grip, they were not greedy, so they stayed hhere, otherwise, the whites wanted to kick our people our from here. They (whites) did not let our people build this Gurdawara in those days. G. B.: Whey they did not let them build the Gurdawara? Informant: They were thinking, that when they would get together in the Gurdawara they would make the plans and improve their condition. Now our people are better off compare to these white people. G. B.: It means when our first people came here, they had to face the difficult time, and they did quite hard work. Informant: Yes, they saw so many propblems, the life was very hard so was the work. People who came here somehow illegal at that time, they did not have to bed or anything like that to sleep on. No place was there to live in, no house, where ever they find the place, they used to sleep there. They saw a very hard time, even when we came here, we saw that kind of time, I mean we went through the same situation. G. B.: So, when your husband came, at that time people used to live with ech other, whom they were working with? Informant: There was no special kind of living, they used to build a small room and live there. People used to live just like in our village back there whty used to burn the lanterns etc. There was no power at all. Now we have the power. G. B.: It means they had a very hard time, they could not get together and could not build a Gurdawara in those days? But, in which year they Gurdawara was built which is on the second Avenue? Informant: It was built first, but I do now know, It was built before we came. G. B.: When you came here first time at Kamloop, at that time you started your farm? Informant: Yes, it was started. G. B.: Inthose days our people were few, then you used to see these people and had your contacts with them? page 5 Informant: Yes we had our contacts with these people. Here was not any difference but it was Vancouver, In Vancouver they were not used to talk with them that much. G. B.: When some one oges to some other country, he has so many dreams and he thinks he would do this and that, he has the aspirations and wants to succeed in every way, when you came according to your own assessment you are quite satisfied and happy with what you have or done? Informant: When we came we were not happy. Indida was better than this country at that time. People used to work in the Mills, work was difficult, pay was very small, it was 50 cents per hour. On the farm, the pay was kinda of nothing, white people were not there on the farm, just Chinese were working on the farm. G. B.: On your farm Chinese were working? Informant: Yes Chinese were working on our farm. At that time these white people did not like to work for us people. G. B.: Is that right? Informant: Oh, yes. G. B.: If you pay them, even then they were not working either? Informant: No, they did not work on the farm, pay was small, only Chinese and Japenese were working on the farm. When we built the Mill then they started to work for us. G. B.: When Chinese and Japneese used to work for you, what kind of experience did you ahve about them? They were working hard or in good way? Informant: They were nice people and used to work good. G. B.: Whatever is happening in India you know about that, when you left that country, now the economic condition of people is good, in general what do you think of India? Informant: People do not have anykind of sympathy with each other these days. Now, whatever is happened, it is not a good thing, many people got killed children become orphans so it is bad. G. B.: When did you go to India last time? Informant: I did not go since long. I went back in 1962. I went to London first then we went to Africa, because my brother is living over there. When we went to visit to my brother, the condition in Africa was very delicate. They were kicking the people our and killing them too. Not many are loving there now. G. B.: Now there is an agitation going on in Punjab about the Demands and Sikhs, after that people got killed in New Delhi, what do you think of that? Informant: Whatever is happening in Punjab or what has happened, that was very bad. But, nobody knows whose fault was that, it might be both sides fault. Popelple were living and used to live there, and nothing used to happen like that. Majority people are bliaming the Government, I do not know, but what ever has happened it was not a good thing. G. B.: You think, that has the impact here too? (Canada) Informant: Yes, here in Canada, there are that kind of people too. Right here in this Town. These peopl are just ordinary people, they just make noise they would not do anything. They go in a group like the processions and make the noise that is all. These things would not improve the situation in India or here. Demands should have given to the Sikhs. G. B.: You think the demands, mostly the Sikhs demands should have given? Informant: I do not know, what they were asking particularly. About the Khalistan, people here were collecting the money, but they do not sent it to any one neither do anything about. They got the excuse to loot the people. So, we have these kinds of people here. In the Gurdawara they start to fight somethimes without any aim. If they collect the money, they should sent to that purpose then it is worth, but they keep the money with them. So, how you can expect anything from these people. G. B.: You think in old days, people used to care and love each other? And used to respect more than they do now? Informant: Yes, that is true. People were very nice they used to help each other cared about the people. Now, they do not even like to talk. That time was very good. In those days, if some one did not have any place to live at first, he could live few months with our people. At our place (home) people used to live soem times six months, one year even two years when they were not settled down. Now, people these days do not like to talk with each other. We used to live like family members. G. B.: Any other experiences, opinions, or impressions you like to share or tell about India or about here about the people? Informant: About India, nobody knows particulartly what is there or happening. What they asking for, what kind of demands, they are asking for these things but nobody cares, nobody is asking what is the matter. Poeple over there know better than people who are living here. People have different views and come here their visit. Living here we can not say much about it. Poor people are dying not the ones who are blamed for those things. G. B.: Since you came here, what do you think of the relations with the white people, you think they are imporoved or deterioated? Informant: The ones who are born in this coutry, they are hundred percent like these white people. They do not know about these things. I would tell you about my children, they have no idea about India, besides nobody even told them. They have their contacts with the whites, that does not mean that they do not meet them or do not have the realtions, but the are on such jobs that they have to be with the whites people all the time. Both our sons are out in Vancouver, on is Manager at the air port. The other page 7 is also holding a good job in the Company, naturally they are always with the whites. Our own people tell lies, they tell different thing and do the different, but the children who are born here they do not know these things at all. G. B.: So, they have (her sons) their contacts with the whites, and not with our people? Informant: Yes, that is true, but they meet our people whom they know. Usually, they go with the white people. They understand punjabi but can not talk that much. So, they have been here since long and have no change to speak punjabi. G. B.: You mostly have your relations and they contacts with these white people or you meet our people too? Informant: It is mixed. We are keeping our realtions with both. Especially, with the old people. These newpeople are hard to understand, they do not have that kind of thing and the attachment which old people used to have and still ahve . We just talk in a limited way to these new ones. The people in the past were very nice, they used to care for each other. These new comers do not care for these things, they are very different. So, you can not keep your relations with these new people, neigher you can trust them because we can not understand them. Old people were trustworthy and very nice G. B.: And you give this land to build that Gurdawara? Informant: Yes, we had that land people were saying that we want to build a Gurdawara here, So, father was living at that time, he said, ok., so they bukld that Gurdawara. It is not the same, people now fight in the Gurdawara. These new people do not care for the Gurdawara or religion, they have no idea what is religion. They are useless people. They wear very loose and wide shirt and think themselves real sikh which is not true, they do not care for the religion and the Gurdawara. Now they say that the bomb was put by the sikh, they say that one singh handed a package to the pilot from Toronto and the pilot was sikh too. We do not know my son is Manager at the Air Port of Vancouver, they must know that he is East Indian and he could do these kinds of thinks too. So, these people think themselves Khalistani and they try to kick people like us. The are not nice people you do not understand them. We cannot mix with them because their ideas are different. But we people do not know these things, our sons do not ahve any idea about these things because they have been here since long. My family (parent's) brother sister, they are all here except on of my brothers, who is in the Army. G. B.: Actually, people who came first, they worked very hard and went through so many difficulties, otheres who came later on, it was not hard for them because the houses were built, they came and settled down, like when you came the houses were built in a way. Informant: At first the houses belonged to the Company on the farms. So, we also built the houses by ourselves. So, when one used to get the land on rent then they used to get the house which was built on the farm. So, after page 8 that we built the houses, and this house was built in 1965. The other is built in 1944. G. B.: Any other general things, you want to talk about? Informant: No.
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Indo-Canadian Interview 52
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Autor/in / Beteiligte Person: | Gurcharn S. Basran, B. Singh Bolaria. (interviewer) |
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Quelle: | icohc:48; local: Interview_52; uuid: 47877f64-f56b-4347-8e67-913605aa24d7;; (1985) |
Veröffentlichung: | 1985 |
Medientyp: | Audio |
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